Author Topic: Abolish the 5 post measure!  (Read 4043 times)

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Offline Kekxo

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Abolish the 5 post measure!
« on: August 27, 2008, 05:58:48 pm »
"You have to write 5 posts to get access to the Machines game discs." That is what many newcomers think.
So they post... rubbish.

As I have seen many low-postcount-guys replying to everything without any effort for good content or relevance for the topics they are posting in, I realise that the 5 post measure has not achieved its predefined goal, it only leads to masses of spam posts and administrator annoyance like: "When do I get my download, Sloik? I have already made my 5 posts so I earned the game."

Ignorance is wide-spread among them, too.

Other guys post in off-topic or the 'Discs' board and wonder why their postcount does not increase. That proves that they only post anything in order to achieve their 5-post-goal and receive a free game.

You know, I am playing Team Fortress 2 for quite a time now, and the producers of the game added so called 'achievements' into the gameplay. What is the result? The players start to act weird and are not longer interested in winning the game but in getting their achievements. That's no fun anymore.



How do we get rid of that?

I suggest a new system for getting the discs. Instead of guys spamming around to get the achievement 'SuperPoster - Get 5 posts', we should switch to something that really lets the people think before posting. A procedure that veryfies the valuable content, correct language, relevance or other aspects like special experience(thinking of scorchedearth) or even humour. A similar sytem already exists, it is called 'Karma'.

My plan is to give the download link to contributers with a certain karma amount instead of a postcount.

People who produce good stuff are well liked and receive more karma points. As you can 'applaud' people only if you already have 5 posts in periods of one hour, the karma verification seems to be safe from abuse. Additionally, in order to get new karma, you have to produce really good stuff and put some effort into your posts, so spammers will never see themselves getting the discs unless someone of us likes them for some reason.

My personal ideal of a good, karma-worth post should have the following properties:
  • Formal aspects:
    • Correct language. No internet abreviations or stuff like that.
    • Low smiley count. Avoid using too big images or pictures that are too long to load either.
    • Clear arranged text layout. Structure your thoughts, use paragraphs and lists, maybe even tables.
  • Content aspects:
    • New content, especially media are well appreciated. Try posting some nice screenshots for example.
    • Relevance to the topic. Always check the title of the topic and the previous posts in it.
    • Experiences. Everything relevant or interesting for the community may be posted. Graphics or modelling skills are good things you can show us.
  • Social aspects:
    • Try acting reasonable, mature. No one likes frustration posts like 'My Machines won't work' without any clue how we should help you.
    • No complaints without a reason. Try to avoid anything like this:
      fuck your site? why im download this machines disc? ha ha he he shut up sloik? talk my questionn? ?im? terrible now
    • Be a gentleman. Humour, nice language and friendly, constructive posts are all welcome.

I think I expressed myself clearly. But that, however, is still just an idea. Discuss it and tell me if it's worthy or not.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 06:41:04 pm by keK^x0 »
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Offline mrhiggens

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Re: Abolish the 5 post measure!
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2008, 07:06:03 pm »
yas i totaly agre with u  about these spam psts with n00bs and a new sytem needs to be made

just kidding about that typing :P, anyway there is way too much stupid posts from newcomers trying to get these 5 posts. If a new karma type system like you said was put in place im sure with would cut down on these "achievement whore" posts, and add to more intelligent posts. By the way the feeling of getting an achievement (xbox 360) is great :D. Also if the torrent for the game was more open and easier to see by people who get the game fast, them many people might skip the spam posts.

If i somehow (most likely :P) I mixed something up... i totally agree with your post

Offline X-Lord

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Re: Abolish the 5 post measure!
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2008, 07:36:19 pm »
You know, my English is not perfect, but I'm trying to write everything correctly :wink:

But when I see those dumb spammers, I get so nervous, that I have to calm down for 5 minutes :smilydude:

Whatever...

Anyway, I totally agree with you, keK^x0 :-P

Or just give them the game and let them get their ass out of our buisness(the Forum) 8-)

Offline Kekxo

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Re: Abolish the 5 post measure!
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2008, 10:41:49 am »
Or just give them the game and let them get their ass out of our buisness(the Forum) 8-)
That's why I added external disc downloads to my download section. Well, they can also look for the Machines download system, but they just don't take their time to look for it. mrhiggins carries a Machines torrent around with him in his signature and mine is directing them to the download section, where they would get what they want without any further posting.

Another thing is that guys claiming that they can not contribute something Machines-related without ever having played the game are just too dumb to look for the Machines demo to get a first impression. I wonder how they even came here when they never heard something about Machines. Were they googling for 'free game'? They simply have to know a bit about the game.

Topics like 'What is your favourite Machine' are thorns in my eyes. People just put something like 'I like the reaper it's cool' in there and have done one fifth of their duty. These topics are abused and have become preys to spammers. My suggestion: Delete or hide them from users having less than the disc-required 5 posts.

Waiting for Sloik's reply. It stands in his might to stop the spamming.
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Offline Apex-

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Re: Abolish the 5 post measure!
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2008, 04:49:56 pm »
Gentlemen... I'm away from home at the moment, excuse my Blackberry typing...

Anywho, I agree 100% that the disc authorization method needs to change. However, I'm not sure how we should go about doing it. My current plan is to develop the Machines download system in a way so that it allows you to download the compressed (limited) Machines for free with your forum account, but it also will allow you to download the extra content depending on your rank... However I'm not sure what "rank" should be based on. Post count obviously did not work, but the question is would Karma make things much better? My fear is that Karma will simply make people post in the same fashion, asking for Karma. Not only that, but not many people use the Karma system, or even know what it is. People who write decent posts requesting the discs may just be ignored due to the majority of the forum lacking the ability to use Karma.

If you guys have any more ideas or comments, please let me know. We've got to figure out how to fix this problem.

Offline Automatic

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Re: Abolish the 5 post measure!
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2008, 05:43:28 pm »
I do not think we should use Karma because they could make a second account and raise their karma that easily. That would make it even easier to get the discs.

Offline Kekxo

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Re: Abolish the 5 post measure!
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2008, 06:23:43 pm »
I do not think we should use Karma because they could make a second account and raise their karma that easily. That would make it even easier to get the discs.

That's what I meant with:
As you can 'applaud' people only if you already have 5 posts in periods of one hour, the karma verification seems to be safe from abuse.
Those guys who erect a second account would have to take the effort of posting 5 things with their fake account in order to applaud themselves. This would certainly be noticed and punished as attempt to cheat the community. As I said before, I think this would be rather safe from abuse.



Not only that, but not many people use the Karma system, or even know what it is. People who write decent posts requesting the discs may just be ignored due to the majority of the forum lacking the ability to use Karma.
[...]
People who write decent posts requesting the discs may just be ignored due to the majority of the forum lacking the ability to use Karma.
They are some people left here on the forum who recently read all new posts going in any section. Those people certainly read the list I posted above which contains some basic aspects of post evaluation. Well, the list is just a suggestion of mine, describing of what I think makes a good post, but I think it delivers a good base.

To go back to topic, the members I was talking about are all respected and already known in the community and know how to use the Karma system. On this base, the older commnuity, the respected members, will decide together who will get the discs. So if new people don't know how to use the system, we still do.

My current plan is to develop the Machines download system in a way so that it allows you to download the compressed (limited) Machines for free with your forum account, but it also will allow you to download the extra content depending on your rank... However I'm not sure what "rank" should be based on.
Good thing. Spreading the game without more requirements than to set up a 0-post account on WiredforWar. Bandwidth saved, so no filtering of the members is required anymore. My download section also directs the guys to external disc downloads. Doing so, I hope to reduce the registering/spamming rate of guys that are only interested in a free game, but not in a community or contributing relevant stuff. Maybe they will return and report something interesting about their game experience.



Another idea I had to exchange the 5 post system is a program that checks automatically how valuable a reply is. Aspects like humour, relevance to the topic or social issues can of course not be included in such a program, but it can check the variety of words, correct spelling, counts of smileys or external pictures and links to maybe quite useful files. This alternative is highly questionable , and maybe impossible or at least hard to implement in the forum script.

That's merely an idea, but no truly efficient or good suggestion for a rank base.
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Offline Sansari

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Re: Abolish the 5 post measure!
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2008, 01:57:56 pm »
Maybe you could make a new karma system that rates your posts according to how many words are in the posts... So if you have a higher word per post average, you have a higher karma. That way, people actually think about what they are going to say instead of just saying 'yeah' POST!

Offline Apex-

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Re: Abolish the 5 post measure!
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2008, 02:07:01 pm »
Then we will just get spam posts of greater length.

Offline Kekxo

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Re: Abolish the 5 post measure!
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2008, 02:08:27 pm »
Maybe you could make a new karma system that rates your posts according to how many words are in the posts... So if you have a higher word per post average, you have a higher karma. That way, people actually think about what they are going to say instead of just saying 'yeah' POST!
Instead of 'yeah' posts they will start to make super-spam posts that have over hundreds of words in them. In addition to that, valuable posts do not have to have many words in them. You can express yourself shortly and well at the same time. I recently read this post(Well it has been shortened now). Many words and nearly no content.

And of course, something like the big quote pyramid in Hogay's bar would be an excellent target for those who wanted to trick this system.

EDIT: Damned, I should have checked if someone else posted while I was posting.
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Offline Sansari

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Re: Abolish the 5 post measure!
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2008, 11:59:49 pm »
Then we will just get spam posts of greater length.
Then you send them a download link to a virus and call it the machines iso. :-P

Offline Apex-

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Re: Abolish the 5 post measure!
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2008, 03:26:31 pm »
But that means more work for me...

Offline mr_steel

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Re: Abolish the 5 post measure!
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2008, 03:12:00 pm »
What have you got against smileys?  :mrgreen:

Offline Kekxo

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Re: Abolish the 5 post measure!
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2008, 06:18:31 pm »
What have you got against smileys?  :mrgreen:

I have nothing against them as long as a post does not overflow with them. One point of the golden rules says:
  • Don't put more than 5 Smilies in your post.

In addition to that, smileys can really mess the text layout insofar that they are bigger than letters, increasing the line size(see quote of mine).
That's all. Please notice that too many smilies are annoying.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2008, 04:52:15 am by keK^x0 »
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Offline Automatic

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Re: Abolish the 5 post measure!
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2008, 08:55:02 pm »
Hey, it's Hogay's Bar besides you do hate smilies. You can't deny.  :-) :-P :? 8-) :smilydude: