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Author Topic: Machines 2 Made in 5 EZ steps  (Read 9841 times)

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Offline randomperson1

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Re: Machines 2 Made in 5 EZ steps
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2007, 05:23:21 pm »
Hey, I'm 14, is 16 so young?

Anyway, most of us don't really know anything unless they have this massive number next to 'POSTS:'

About the music software, you using Sibelius? I got it a few months ago (from a friend............. at a VERY LOW price...........), anyway it is quite good and accompanying my Grade 5 Pianoage and theoryage it works a treat. My friend is insane on it (he writes pages and pages of classical style stuff), anyway, I (and possibly my friend) would be glad to help you compose any music you think up.

Also, we haven't done that much (at least that is what I think), we hanen't even decided on an engine!

Offline Machine Head

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Re: Machines 2 Made in 5 EZ steps
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2007, 05:30:57 pm »
Well the way people talk on here they kno everything almost about what there doing...or atleast they make it sound that way lol, and nah right now I use wavepad and the full version of fruityloops but Ill go check that program out that your talking about and give it a try and sure thing Id love to have some help like I could make a little piece of music say like 2 min long or something and then send it to u and then u could add to it and so on and so forth or I could just make a whole repetitive long music file and then send to you and you could give it some tweaks or whatever then we can send it to whoever is really doing this thing...Thats another thing...we need to make a whole new thread so people can sign up for these things so we will have a better idea of who alls in on this and whos doing what so I atleast want be so confused lol. Well...I guess we need to find out what engine we are going to be using first though huh? that would be a great start lol  :-P
~Machine Head~

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Offline ProjectX

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Re: Machines 2 Made in 5 EZ steps
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2007, 05:45:40 pm »
Wow thanks  :-) hehe I will do that and who exactly do I send it to when im done with the finished product or will it tell me on that forum? Idk but I guess I better get to work huh? hehe Ill go look at the thread now thanks again.

There's a section/thread to upload work, but you should probably just upload it to one of the music thread (or start your own) and let everyone judge it first  :wink:

Development is slow... mostly cause we have no deadlines, school, jobs, etc. We have lots of the concept work done though, and some 3D models. (Our wiki needs updating to show this :-P)

I think the engine choices have come down to the Cube Engine, The Spring Engine or the IrrLicht Engine.

Offline randomperson1

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Re: Machines 2 Made in 5 EZ steps
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2007, 06:01:07 pm »
Machine Head: Normally Sibelius costs 300 or so. However, you can get much (MUCH (Cost=0.00)) cheaper versions if you look in the right places..........

Offline Machine Head

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Re: Machines 2 Made in 5 EZ steps
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2007, 06:30:50 pm »
Ohh alright so im guessing that I can like download it somewhere or something like that?

Projectx: ohh ok well then Ill guess Ill do that I got some pretty freaking sweet ideas for music...I think yall are going to like it and also...do we get paid or anything just wondering? Not saying I want do it if I dont lol Id love to just be part of it  :-P
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Offline the_taken

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Re: Machines 2 Made in 5 EZ steps
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2007, 06:32:21 pm »
This hasn't been mentioned, and it's an important part of any game with rules. I've noticed a few discussions with this topic involved (namely Deliverance's WH40K vehicle armor and racial tech suggestion), but I think it bears it's own mentioning and merit.

Game Mechanics: The Rules. The Crunch. The Solid Numbers. The Taco without Toppings. ETC..

It's just something I noticed while playing D&D: Solid mechanics must exist separately from the flavour/the story or the game doesn't play properly and rules mess up your fun. It's something I take very seriously seeing as it's ruined some of my gaming sessions and people don't realize the damage that can occur with broken Game Mechanics. I'm sure you can find an example where an imbalance ruined your game.

Offline Machine Head

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Re: Machines 2 Made in 5 EZ steps
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2007, 06:35:37 pm »
Yes I totally agree with you there and I really dont think theres anyone in this world that hasnt incountered that. Good idea/point
~Machine Head~

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Offline Jabor

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Re: Machines 2 Made in 5 EZ steps
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2007, 01:44:52 am »
I would like to point out that we already have a fairly solid rules system ready-to-go.

A weapon does damage equal to its POWER, can damage anything within its maximum RANGE, and has one or more specific damage TYPEs.
A unit can carry one or more weapons, and can use one at a time. A unit also has a specific HEALTH and ARMOR LEVEL.
Damage dealt to a unit by a weapon is reduced by the units armor level, and if the armor is strong against that specific type then it may be further reduced. Damage is subtracted from a units current health, and when it reaches 0 the unit is killed. etc. etc.

Also, it is even worse to have rules that work against the flavour of the game - e.g. an anti-tank rocket doing less damage than a machine-gun against a heavy armored vehicle because "that's the way the damage calculations work". What we are doing is to design the basic flavour of the rules (which is sort of linked to the actual story flavour, but is different), and building the rules within that. This ensures that the final rules work within the games flavour, and visa versa.

Notice that we have a significant amount of base rules material, but almost no specific storyline constructs at this stage.

We actually have it rather easy, as we are building a sci-fi game rather than a fantasy game, so we can just ensure that the rules obey classical physics and are uniform, and we are pretty much protected against the sort of imbalances you describe - if we stick to real-world physics, all we need to do to fix any imbalances is play with the numbers a bit.

I still have my original Machines disks and manual....

Offline Deliverance

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Re: Machines 2 Made in 5 EZ steps
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2007, 03:15:55 am »
Quote
Anyway, most of us don't really know anything unless they have this massive number next to 'POSTS:'

I'm the exception :(

/agree with everything you said Jabor and you too, taken. We really do have a lot sorted as far as rules go and we have built the rules up from ideas moulded to fit in with the flavour of the game OR ideas have come from what people thought would arise from the 'flavour' or themes we had set down so we are pretty right in that area.

We just have to get more specific and decisive about the storyline. We have lots of what we need for the rules and calculations the game will make in the background and it is just up to trial-and-error or the game balancing team to tweak it, as it is made roughly and using logic at the moment but the numbers haven't been thoroughly worked out, obviously.

Also for people who are relatively new, remember that in some places (especially Machines 2 Ideas --> Ideas) don't just look at the first page. There is good material in the 2nd and 3rd pages in many cases.
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Offline ProjectX

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Re: Machines 2 Made in 5 EZ steps
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2007, 04:01:14 am »
Is there somewhere I can find these 'rules' all layed out nicely??
I want to take a crack at some of the programming aspects. You know, building these rules into unit, building and projectile classes... etc etc

Offline Deliverance

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Re: Machines 2 Made in 5 EZ steps
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2007, 04:41:55 am »
Machines2 Ideas --> Ideas --> Weapons - Humans (http://wiredforwar.org/forums/index.php?topic=1010.0)
Machines2 Ideas --> Ideas --> Armour In Game (http://wiredforwar.org/forums/index.php?topic=966.0)

has some, good place to start perhaps.
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Offline M123

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Re: Machines 2 Made in 5 EZ steps
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2007, 06:52:19 am »
If M2 is to have explosive type weapons, can we PLEASE have a damage system for infantry where the damage is relative to the distance from the unit? Cause I HATE :argh: those games where a tank can fire a shell right at some poor bugger's head, then he only takes something like 2 points of damage ("How did that happen?!," you scream in frustration as your heavy tank manages to score a direct hit on an enemy infantry unit, yet it just keeps going as though nothing happened, then destroys your tank with an RPG-7 or C4 or something... :|)


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Offline Deliverance

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Re: Machines 2 Made in 5 EZ steps
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2007, 07:36:19 am »
I don't quite get what you mean, but if you look under Machines2 Ideas => Ideas => Weapons - Unknown I have posted some guns with rules where the initial target takes a higher armour penetrating hit or more damage while units hit with the explosion take less damage with less penetration ^^
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Offline the_taken

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Re: Machines 2 Made in 5 EZ steps
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2007, 12:30:00 pm »
I would like to point out that we already have a fairly solid rules system ready-to-go.

-snip-

Notice that we have a significant amount of base rules material, but almost no specific storyline constructs at this stage.

I can't find all of them. Could you please post some links?

Quote
A weapon does damage equal to its POWER, can damage anything within its maximum RANGE, and has one or more specific damage TYPEs.
A unit can carry one or more weapons, and can use one at a time. A unit also has a specific HEALTH and ARMOR LEVEL.
Damage dealt to a unit by a weapon is reduced by the units armor level, and if the armor is strong against that specific type then it may be further reduced. Damage is subtracted from a units current health, and when it reaches 0 the unit is killed. etc. etc.

More, please.

Quote
Also, it is even worse to have rules that work against the flavour of the game
What? That's just crazy talk. A properly designed (AKA: balanced) mathematical system of gameplay devoid of flavour can have any flavour adapted to it later. It's what brings people to RPG games like D&D. (It falls flat on it's face from the get-go, but that's a different story.) And your example is a lesson in "Why the fuck did you to use that equation?"

Quote
What we are doing is to design the basic flavour of the rules (which is sort of linked to the actual story flavour, but is different), and building the rules within that. This ensures that the final rules work within the games flavour, and visa versa.
OMFG. More crazy talk. This is why D&D falls flat on it's face. The cleric was given all these nice buffs that he uses on himself instead of the fighter cause the cleric can use them just as effectively. The wizard can out-wrestle everything by level 7. Paladins are useless arse-holes covered in shiny metal instead of the defensive expert the designers planned. And their second attempt at a defensive expert, the Knight, doesn't actively defend the party and can't attack anything from level 3 onwards.

Quote
We actually have it rather easy, as we are building a sci-fi game rather than a fantasy game, so we can just ensure that the rules obey classical physics and are uniform, and we are pretty much protected against the sort of imbalances you describe - if we stick to real-world physics, all we need to do to fix any imbalances is play with the numbers a bit.

I'll let you in on a little secret: The difference between Sci-fi and Fantasy is just genre labeling. It's all fiction.Fantasy is a synonym for fiction. The fact that it's a plasma grenade and not a Delayed Blast Fireball spell is all based apon genre labeling.
And real-world physics? Did you take physics in uni? How about chemistry? Or engineering?
Easy? My sciences stop at high school, and let me tell you, basic physics is more complicated than the entire system of game mechanics used in Pokemon. Finding and resolving an exploit in "the real-world" would be like trying to find which jar of peach sauce I ate from when I was eight months old. Then what? Fuck realism in ass to restore balance?
Fuck it, man. The rules you described a few paragraphs up don't even look like real world physics equations. WT fucking F?

---------

Now that I've calmed down, I'm announcing that after reading all of the current rules, I'm going to compile them and fill in the blanks, and rewrite them to balance out the system. Sound good?

Offline ProjectX

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Re: Machines 2 Made in 5 EZ steps
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2007, 03:37:35 pm »
Fine by me.
It's not that hard to implement basic physics... We don't have to re-create the real world, just give explosions a blast radius, and ... what ever else comes up.